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I wanted to take this time to talk about something I’m seeing as a disturbing trend.
We have had some great discussions with Andrew and John about Christianity. I have told them what I believe and have tried my best to answer the questions they have of me. They have both been very polite in their questions and responses.
What is disturbing to me is finding people who do not accept God with the faith I accept Him trying to dissuade me from my belief.
It’s almost as though they (and I use a generic ‘they’ because I don’t know if Andrew is a believer or not) are evangelicals of the opposite kind I am. They are trying to convert me and any other born-again Christian into forsaking our faith.
Jesus told us this time would come, but I guess I never thought I would have to deal with it and in such a public forum.
He also told us some would try to deceive the very elect into not believing in Him. There are some who proclaim their Christian faith who can be persuaded otherwise if shown enough to make them doubt. In these cases I question whether they were saved to begin with or they wouldn’t reject the message of the Gospel.
I have no doubt in my faith, and in fact, feel my discussions with Andrew and John have made it stronger.
How can I explain the remission of my daughter-in-law’s cancer without any treatment, when 15 tumors were found on her body in February and when she went for a scan a few weeks ago before going for treatment they had disappeared except for two which are too small to treat, if not by the Grace and intervention of the Great Physician Himself? No treatment was done in the meantime, but prayers were going up every day by hundreds of people.
How can I explain a lifetime search for my biological father that, when God was ready and my father was no longer drinking, happened to just drop in my lap one day the Tuesday before I was taking a trip to Florida, a destination that was but 3 hours from where my father lived?
How can I explain the bond of love my father and I had for each other from the time we first met, when we embraced each other as though we were long-lost friends?
How do I explain how his wife, who was so hostile to me my father and I had to meet at a Waffle House, suddenly came around and now, even three years after his death we stay in touch and she tells me she loves me and means it?
I had prayed to meet my father when I was a teen, but since it didn’t happen I had forgotten about it and forty years later contact information for him just dropped in my lap.
I can only explain these things as answers to prayers to the Only God. There is no other and He is a jealous God. He is the only God and there never was nor never will be another.
How else do I explain the miracle of my salvation and the peace I have in my heart that if I were to drop dead at this very moment all would be fine, and I just know there is a literal Heaven and a literal hell?
I have the faith of a child and I have never tried to be too cerebral about my faith. I can remember as a child I would try to imagine what things were like before God spoke “let there be light” and it was so.
I don’t care if someone is another Einstein, he or she can never reason out God; it has to be done by simple faith.
I’m not stupid but I’m no genius either, and for that I see I am blessed in that my questions were resolved long ago or I have decided what questions I still have can wait until I see Him face to face and can ask if I still think it’s important and He’ll explain it and I’ll understand it.
So, to the Andrews and Johns out there, I am more than happy to share my faith with you and read anything reasonable you have to offer, but I am resolute in my faith and I will be praying even harder for God’s protection from any attempts to ‘convert’ me to not believing in Him.
Written by ~J~
Andrew Schlewitz Says:
May 30th, 2007 at 11:05 pmVisit Andrew Schlewitz
J,
If you’re going to make huge assertions about politics and religion, in a public forum, why in the world are you put off that will people will respond and challenge you?
I’m glad your faith gives you comfort and meaning. I don’t seek to take that from you; I don’t want to (de)convert you. And I am sorry if you feel like I was picking on you or your blog.
I came across this blog via the Washington Post piece on Monica Goodling, and got drawn into other stuff at this site. I rarely blog, and I guess you had to bear with the spare time I had this past week (in other words, don’t take it personally). Thanks for sharing your views with me.
~J~ Says:
May 31st, 2007 at 7:44 amVisit ~J~
Andrew,
I’m not put off by people challenging and responding to me. I am disturbed because I am seeing something that I had not seen before as strongly as I am now seeing it, and that is people who are non-believers actually trying to prove to me or any Christian what I believe is wrong.
I’ve been challenged on that many times before, don’t get me wrong, but for it to be so persistent as it has been is what has been interesting to me.
I am disturbed because I believe Jesus told us this day would come and I just never thought it would come in my lifetime. IOW I believe we are seeing the beginning of the end. How long that takes only God knows. It could take another million years for all I know, but I don’t believe that. Since time has no meaning for God, though, it could take that long. This is just another sign to me and that means time is short to “gather the harvest”, which puts an even bigger spiritual burden on me for missions.
Andrew Schlewitz Says:
May 31st, 2007 at 9:08 amVisit Andrew Schlewitz
J,
You may be caught in a political reaction to Christian fundamentalists–known as “dominionists”–who want to reconstruct the US political system, remake the US government so it alligns with their particular interpretation of the Bible (especialy Levitical law). See http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr.htm.
Then there are commentators saying that secular and liberal folks are out to get Christians, like Coulter’s Godless: The Church of Liberalism; Hannity’s Deliver us from Evil: Defeating Terrorism, Despotism, and Liberalism, or Delay’s No Retreat, No Surrender: One American’s Fight (he blames his political downfall on communists and other godless people).
From the opposite angle, there are several books that have may be stirring up a panic among non-fundamentalists that there are people who want create a Christian version of a fascist state. Examples–Goldberg’s Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism; Hedges’ American Fascism: The Christian Right and the War on America; or Phillips’ American Theocracy: The Peril and Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, and Borrowed Money in the 21st Century.
And at the local level, evangelical Christians have mobilized at the local level, rightfully using the democratic system to put representatives on school boards, on city councils, in county government–and shaping policy to reflect their agenda: put creationism (also called intelligent design) in the public school curriculum; ban sex education in public schools; protect Christian rituals and shrines in the public arena (10 commandment monuments, prayer in state assemblies).
At the national level there are Christian leaders like Dobson, Robertson, the late Falwell, along with prominent Senators and Represenatives making pronouncements on behalf of an evangelical agenda.
So those who don’t agree with this particular agenda are pushing back, with books, in campaigns, in the courts, on the internet. Some call it a culture war, but I think that term’s too dramatic. It’s just our political system at work, and sometimes it’s acrimonious, other times not. That doesn’t make it any less painful or anxious for those involved in the argument, but I’m not sure you should think of yourself as a special target. Criticism is flying everywhere, hitting lots of people, like you-know-what hitting the fan.
~J~ Says:
May 31st, 2007 at 9:18 amVisit ~J~
I don’t consider myself to be a specific target of anyone. That gives me “victim” status and I’m not a victim of anything. I don’t even mind the discussions you and I and John have had, as none of it has shaken my faith.
As to Robertson and Dobson: Robertson is way over the line and I have never heard Dobson speak, but what I read leads me to believe he thinks he is more important than he is.
I have never yet gone to a polling place and voted any way anyone told me to vote. Not when I was in a union and received mail-outs to take to the polling place with me so I would be sure to vote for their candidates.
I have never had a minister of a church I attend even talk about politics and certainly no one on church property who are Christian friends have done that.
We actually are able to make up our own minds on issues that are important to us and can decide who gets our vote based on that.
You know, humans are funny beings. Somehow we managed to grow up, get jobs, have children, live productive lives all going on our own instinct and guidance from friends and our faith, if we have it, and somehow we’ve managed to survive.
I even know how to spend my own money wisely.
I’m being silly but you get the drift.
John Foust Says:
May 31st, 2007 at 12:40 pmVisit John Foust
If you have a public blog, I think people assume you are there to have a conversation. And if people can be polite and considerate while they do that, perhaps everyone will learn a little bit. It’s not always going to be people who believe the same things you do. I happened to land here because of your blog’s connection to Barb’s and the references to the Power Team.
I don’t think it would hurt to become better acquainted with those that you and Barb seem to think are an enemy. I don’t think it’s useful to create bogey-man generalizations to blame for perceived ills in the world. If there is a lesson at the core of American pluralism, I hope that it is that we all need to find civil ways of reconciling differences. Dismissing someone because you think they’re going to Hell isn’t a great way to start a conversation about how to improve the public schools.
You said someone can “never reason out God; it has to be done by simple faith.” The problem is, faith seems to be whatever someone wants it to be, especially when they try to use faith-based beliefs as a basis for reality-based requirements. I’d prefer reality-based beliefs to justify reality-based requirements as expressed in law and civic behavior. This isn’t a reaction that’s unique to non-believers, either. Isn’t the same conflict in play when two religious views collide? Each insists they are interpreting God and God’s word in the only right and proper way.
As for what you wrote above, the science of medicine sees spontaneous remission all the time. They may not understand why, but it happens. It doesn’t only happen to the nice people or the believers, either. For that matter, a diagnosis of 15 tumors might not be correct, either. I’m not here to ridicule your experience. I’m only saying that brains love to find patterns. You see a correlation, you want to find a cause. Last summer, I bumped into my mailman in the buffet line at Disneyworld, a thousand miles from home. Just chance? Of course. No other explanation necessary.
~J~ Says:
May 31st, 2007 at 1:21 pmVisit ~J~
John said:
John, I ask you to quote me even one time as calling you or anyone else an enemy unless it was an enemy of this country or someone I know personally. You may find references to enemy of our country but I don’t feel as though I have personal enemies.
Where can you quote me saying any specific person is going to hell other than Satan?
I don’t do that because I am not the judge of whom goes where. I never judge the state of anyone’s soul…never! I am taught Jesus is the only One Who judges the state of a person’s soul.
As far as your fight with Barb about public schools, that’s between you and her and for other reasons Barb is no longer posting here nor am I posting there.
I have made no accusations against you personally, and wrote this after reflecting on the fact that I am now seeing something I thought I would never see so prevalently in my lifetime. That’s all this post is about.
I mentioned you and Andrew because you are the two I have had dialog with on the topic. I haven’t re-read it today, but I don’t recall attacking either of you.
I have been polite to you each time you have commented and I have answered to the best of my ability the questions you posed to me. For you to come here and make generalized accusations against me for a problem you have with someone else is beyond the pale considering how I have treated you.
~J~ Says:
May 31st, 2007 at 1:30 pmVisit ~J~
And, John, as for the 15 tumors, how about trying out the doctors at Baylor Hospital and MD Anderson cancer hospital who read the results of her body scan, not once but at least 3 different scans. BTW they also did needle biopsies on them and knew they were there. Coincidence? No, they were just gone and gone in 3 months’ time from discovery to the last scan. Oh, and each doctor is a born-again Christian too.
I could tell you about one of her doctors whom they thought dead from a heart attack and turned off life support only to see this man of almost 80 years open his eyes and speak to them instead of dying and then having a successful heart transplant, but that would be a spontaneous coincidence too because he, too, had people praying for him.
John Foust Says:
May 31st, 2007 at 3:31 pmVisit John Foust
I apologize if I’ve offended with anything I said. My mention of “dismissing someone because they’re going to Hell” wasn’t intended to be a literal quote. I thought you’d written something here about believing in a literal Heaven and literal Hell, and perhaps I extrapolated incorrectly that you thought some people would be going there. Similarly, perhaps I conflated your thoughts with Barb’s in the original Power Team cross-post that brought me here. To your credit, engaging in dialog with Andrew and I (no, we don’t know each other) shows that you open to other viewpoints, and for that I thank you.
~J~ Says:
May 31st, 2007 at 4:08 pmVisit ~J~
John,
I do believe in a literal Heaven and a literal hell, and I also believe some will go to Heaven while others will go to hell. How that happens in my belief has been thoroughly explained to you.
I make no judgment on the state of yours or anyone else’s soul. If I feel in my heart I have shared all the knowledge the Holy Spirit shows me and I have no more to share with you I will discontinue the discussion.
I am not here to force my beliefs on you and I pray you are not here to force yours on me. We each have free choice to do what we want with our lives according to our beliefs. I can only share my beliefs with you and tell you why I believe it. The rest is up to you to accept or reject the message.
When we get to the point we are talking in circles I decide to “shake the dust” off my feet and move on. That does not mean I am rejecting you as a person, however.
Your apology is gratefully accepted.
John Foust Says:
June 1st, 2007 at 12:43 pmVisit John Foust
Thank you. I hope you realize that Andrew and I didn’t intend to bring about the End Times by posting here.
~J~ Says:
June 1st, 2007 at 2:23 pmVisit ~J~
Since it’s not within yours or Andrew’s power to bring about the End Times that was never a consideration.
Big Mo Says:
June 1st, 2007 at 5:06 pmVisit Big Mo
J, Andrew and John - good discussions all around. I used to daily read and post at World Magazine blog, but vacated that place because of a certain group of boneheaded athiests, homosexuals and Christians who would jump on almost every thread and refight the same arguments over and over and over and over…
One athiest and one believer in…well, I never knew exactly what God he beleives in…are particularly vicious in their attacks on Christians, and there are a couple of Christians who reciprocate in kind. I’ve complained, but was told that since they weren’t making “personal” attacks, they weren’t banned.
Bah!
As you’ve just demonstrated, you can have good conversations with people coming from different perspectives, and that can start something good. For J’s sake, hope you two stay around.